要求加薪無望 三百多名以色列醫生辭職

[Shangyih]

要求加薪無望 三百多名以色列醫生辭職
更新日期:2011/10/11 06:25
三百多名以色列醫生要求政府加薪，談判沒有結果，今天辭職抗議。


美聯社說，以色列醫生薪水低，但生活費不斷飆高，醫生要求加薪，和政府談判好幾個星期，政府沒有答應請求，全國五千多名醫生中，至少有三百四十名醫生今天辭職，表示抗議。


以色列醫生平均月薪三千三百美元，將近十萬元新台幣，但他們覺得薪水不夠養家，因此要求加薪。

[newshine]

將近十萬台幣的薪水
但是不知道當地的物價水準
與薪資水準
很難判定是否合理咧
(壓力) (壓力) (壓力)

[micoto]

將近十萬台幣的薪水
但是不知道當地的物價水準
與薪資水準
很難判定是否合理咧
(壓力) (壓力) (壓力)

記得前一陣子才有新聞說以色列因為房價飆得太高，
而出現街頭抗議遊行的說~~

剛才找了一下，個人平均年所得約26000多元，
應該物價水準跟台灣差不多或更高.....真慘!!

[gary]

辭職比例太低

[Ocean]

看來以色列醫生也不是很團結
這三百多個
註定要當砲灰

[kwojohn]

台灣只有大醫院的小醫師有辦法醬子搞
只要同時五百位醫師離職
大醫院大概倒光了...

[micoto]

台灣只有大醫院的小醫師有辦法醬子搞
只要同時五百位醫師離職
大醫院大概倒光了...

我覺得很悲觀....其實以色列至少還有近6~7%的醫師敢團結。
如果健保局把台灣醫師薪水降到10萬，我想在台灣會辭職不幹的醫師
頂多只有1%吧!

其他人大概都還是捏著LP繼續幹，偶爾上上網抱怨而已~~

[lupin]

看來以色列醫生也不是很團結
這三百多個
註定要當砲灰

比台灣強，台灣連三十個都湊不滿.... （窮）

[auricle]

這些人在台灣絕對被罵到臭頭.

[kwojohn]

台灣只有大醫院的小醫師有辦法醬子搞
只要同時五百位醫師離職
大醫院大概倒光了...

我覺得很悲觀....其實以色列至少還有近6~7%的醫師敢團結。
如果健保局把台灣醫師薪水降到10萬，我想在台灣會辭職不幹的醫師
頂多只有1%吧!
其他人大概都還是捏著LP繼續幹，偶爾上上網抱怨而已~~

不會辭職，只會全部跑去做隆鼻隆乳了
因為做一個就等於一個月薪水... (爽)

[superdog]

台灣只有大醫院的小醫師有辦法醬子搞
只要同時五百位醫師離職
大醫院大概倒光了...

我覺得很悲觀....其實以色列至少還有近6~7%的醫師敢團結。
如果健保局把台灣醫師薪水降到10萬，我想在台灣會辭職不幹的醫師
頂多只有1%吧!

其他人大概都還是捏著LP繼續幹，偶爾上上網抱怨而已~~

(被咬了)

[kathy]

這則新聞不知道真實性如何

如果用Israeli doctors' strike google

找到的新聞和這則簡短的報導相差甚遠

用Associated Press Israeli doctors' strike則找不到美聯社有相關訊息

[kathy]

今年四月的新聞

Israeli doctors declare warning strike for first time in decade


Published 00:42 04.04.11

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/ne ... e-1.353913

Public-sector doctors will be launching a two-day warning strike beginning at 7 A.M. tomorrow that will affect hospitals and health clinics across the country, marking the first time in more than a decade that Israeli physicians will agitate for better conditions by refusing to work.

As part of the strike, all general public hospitals and geriatric and psychiatric medical centers that are run by the government or the Clalit health maintenance organization will be operating at reduced capacity, as they do on Saturdays. Doctors at Shaare Zedek Medical Center and both branches of the Hadassah University Hospital, all in Jerusalem, will also be working at a reduced level.



Non-emergency operations will be postponed and doctors at hospital outpatient clinics will not receive patients. Emergency rooms and maternity wards will remain open, and treatment will continue in dialysis, oncology and in vitro fertilization units, though at a below-normal capacity.

Only on-call doctors are supposed to show up at the hospitals participating in the strike, the Israeli Medical Association has announced.

For at least one day, doctors at Clalit and Leumit HMO clinics - which together insure 62 percent of the population, or 4.7 million people - will not see patients. At the end of the day tomorrow, union officials will decide whether to continue the strike at the clinics for a second day.

The Health Ministry is planning to issue guidelines to hospitals and health clinics this morning in an effort to make sure that as many services as possible are still being provided.

Dr. Leonid Eidelman, chairman of the Israeli Medical Association, said the goal of the warning strike was to prod the Finance Ministry to become more flexible. Doctors have been negotiating with the government for better work conditions, including a 50-percent increase in hourly wages, for more than eight months.

"For nearly 11 years we have refrained from striking, and the treasury has taken advantage of our commitment in order to hang the health-care system out to dry," said Eidelman. "The health-care system is collapsing from day to day. We have submitted a rescue plan for the system that should bring good news to the residents of Israel, but the treasury is continuing to drag its feet. We cannot continue to lend a hand to the destruction of the public health-care system."

Today marks two weeks since the medical association declared a labor conflict in the public sector, which set the stage for the strike. The last doctors' strike took place in 2000 and lasted four-and-a-half months.

There are large gaps between the positions of the medical association and the treasury, which even disagree over the facts. The government says physicians currently earn an average of NIS 26,322 a month, but the doctors say the actual figure is NIS 24,000.

In addition to the pay raise, doctors are also demanding a pension fund, financial incentives for those who work in outlying areas or specialize in understaffed fields including neonatology and pediatric oncology, and more time to see patients. Doctors at health clinics are currently allotted 10 minutes per patient, and are seeking to increase that to 12-15 minutes.

[kathy]

There are large gaps between the positions of the medical association and the treasury, which even disagree over the facts. The government says physicians currently earn an average of NIS 26,322 a month, but the doctors say the actual figure is NIS 24,000.

1 NIS = 0.271702 U.S. dollars ~ 8 NTD

所以 平均薪資應是 24000 ~ 26332 x 8 = 192,000 ~ 210,656

[kathy]

另一則是八月份的新聞

Israeli doctors strike finally ends after five months as landmark deal inked

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/is ... d-1.380681

Published 19:21 25.08.11

An agreement was finally signed between the Finance Ministry and the Doctors' Llabor Federation Thursday afternoon, ending a five-month-long struggle. The agreement, which is expected to drastically change the face of Israeli medicine, is the achievement of negotiations that dragged on for almost a full year, starting in September 2010.

The 36-page-long agreement was signed by representative of the Finance Ministry Ilan Levin, Doctors' Labor Federation chairman Dr. Leonid Edelman, and representatives of Clalit HMO, Hadassah Hospital and Government Service.


The agreement, a compromise between the demands of the doctors and the ministry, was signed after a breakthrough in recent days between the two sides. The breakthrough was due to the facilitation of Yitzhak Peterburg. The details of the draft agreement were published Wednesday, and the two sides deliberated intensively overnight to iron out the final details.

The deal includes a 49 percent average salary increase for hospital doctors, who will now clock in and out, and the addition of 1,000 doctors at public hospitals. The wage hike is not equal across the board; the hikes are much higher for doctors in outlying areas or in specialties that are short of physicians.

The agreement is for nine years, retroactive to July 2010, when the last deal expired. The agreement will increase funding for doctors in the public health system by NIS 2.7 billion.

Doctors working in outlying areas will earn an average of 20 percent more than their counterparts in the center of the country.

Differential increases will also be paid to physicians in specialties with doctor shortages, including general surgery, internal medicine, pathology, geriatrics, child psychology, hematology, emergency medicine, nuclear medicine and pediatric oncology.

An especially high increase - 70 percent - will be given to specialists in fields where the shortages are acute, including anesthesiology, intensive care, pediatrics and neonatology.

Moreover, medical residents who move to the periphery or choose to specialize in a field in which doctors are lacking will be given a one-time grant of NIS 300,000. Residents who do both - move to the periphery and specialize in a field with shortages - will receive a grant of NIS 500,000.

[kathy]

Agreement includes 49 percent average pay increase for hospital doctors and extra 1,000 doctors in public hospitals; deal is for nine years, retroactive to July 2010.

第一句就是 雙方同意醫院醫師 加薪49%

不知道

美聯社是不是知有這則報導

如果有 不知道原報導內容為何

如果沒有這則報導

那這則報導從何而來 目的為何?

無怪乎

有人說台灣的媒體是製造業

[kathy]

針對 八月份的新聞

另外一篇文章

http://www.israelsituation.com/2011/08/ ... rs-strike/


Learning Lessons From the Doctors’ Strike
by Anthony Reich on August 28, 2011


After 158 long days of strikes by Israel’s doctors, a deal has finally been reached with the treasury over their pay and working conditions. An agreement was signed between representatives of the doctors’ labour union and government officials on Thursday which changes dramatically the humiliation that doctors in the public sector have been subject to in the past. The agreement is retroactive to 2010 when the last agreement ran out, and will govern pay scales for a nine-year period.

It is shameful that it took five months of strikes by the doctors to finally convince the treasury to agree to the new deal. Under its terms, hospital doctors will receive an average pay increase of 49%. Doctors working in the periphery of the country, and doctors working in specialities which suffer an acute shortage of personnel, will receive a substantially higher increase. These increases give an indication of how far behind market rates, doctors pay scales have fallen over the past few years. In return for the better salary levels, doctors have agreed to clock in and out of their shifts. A further 1,000 positions have also been added by the government to reduce the shortage of manpower that has been plaguing Israeli hospitals. Overall, this agreement is set to change the face of Israeli medicine and medical treatment in the country over the next few years.

The Israeli medical health system is one of the best that I have come across. One does not find the phenomenon here like in the USA and other countries around the world, that people who are at an economic disadvantage are unable to receive medical treatment. In Israel, all citizens have the right to have access to basic medical treatment which is of a high standard. One does also not experience the issue which the UK’s National Health System suffers from of lengthy waiting lists for treatments to be carried out. In Israel, even though it may require some patience, treatments are usually available within a reasonable period of time. Now that pay scales have been rectified, it will ensure that those delivering this service will be remunerated accordingly. It will also mean that high quality individuals will be attracted to the medical field, and will be incentivised to practice their art in Israel as opposed to seeking more lucrative opportunities abroad.

For me, the main lessons to be learned from the new deal are the ones arising from the process that it took until the time that it was agreed. One can learn many things from the behaviour of the doctors in this process, as well as the way in which government officials acted. One of the toughest lessons that new immigrants to Israel are forced to learn, frequently via the most difficult route, is that there is no such thing as automatic entitlement in this country. Even if you have a caste-iron agreement in place which says that you are entitled to a certain increase in salary or other entitlement, you will not receive this unless you are prepared to go in and demand what you are entitled to. Whereas in other countries, companies usually have a date upon which salaries are reviewed and pay increases are awarded (or not as the case may be), this type of behaviour is not typical for Israel. Companies will award pay increases to those who shout the loudest, and may completely overlook those who are not willing to make a big noise. The doctors’ strike was one of necessity. It should be clear that, without the industrial action and public relations exercise that went with it, the doctors would not have achieved a small fraction of what they deservedly achieved.

The way that the action was taken, is of equal importance. Emergency services were never interrupted. Instead, the doctors professionally separated the cases into those whose treatment was essential, and those whose treatment could be delayed. Any treatment that was essential went forward without consideration of the industrial action. Doctors administering chemotherapy and psychiatric treatment did not interrupt their regular work day in the interests of taking best care of their patients. The strike was immediately lifted ten days ago in the area of the terror attacks in the south until such time as all casualties from these attacks had been taken proper care of. Although there is now a substantial backlog of non-emergency treatments that have been delayed, the doctors have somehow managed their medical responsibilities under their Hippocratic Oath, while also succeeding in placing the required pressure on those who only understand the language of industrial action.

The behaviour of the government officials in this sorry story have less sympathy and respect from me. To begin with, the demands of the doctors were completely ignored. Even when the industrial action was initiated, the treasury refused to give sufficient consideration to the effects of below-market pay rates to the country’s medical professionals. It eventually took a hunger strike on the part of the chairman of the Israel Medical Association, and a complete walkout of all medical residents from their hospitals until the proper attention was given to this important issue. When the agreement was finally signed last week, the treasury officials did their best to keep the signing low-key and behind doors.

It is true that the government has an obligation to keep its spending under control, especially at the current time when inflation threatens to increase. With huge security obligations, Israel’s government spending is always tough to keep under control. This should not, and cannot serve as an excuse for not allocating the correct public money to build the future of this young country. Education, medical services, infrastructure and many other services cannot be ignored due to the military and security requirements. It does mean, however, that public officials have extra responsibility to ensure that each Shekel of tax money goes as far as it possibly can. In this, unfortunately, our country fails miserably. The amount of waste, corruption and unnecessary spending of money that is evident is a huge disappointment to the citizens of Israel. Why should the defense minister feel justified to request a new Audi A8 at a cost to the taxpayer of 2 million Shekels, when his current A6 is more than adequate. The state comptroller’s reports are regularly critical of unnecessary wastage of tax money. Such lack of consideration to where the money really needs to go, should not be tolerated.

I feel that citizens of the State of Israel owe a deep debt of gratitude to our medical professionals. For many years, they have provided a high quality service in line with the most recent developments in technology and treatment, while being paid far less than their real value. When the moment came to bring this situation to a head, they did so in the most respectful way possible, while still insisting upon the maintenance of their own rights and dignity. If some of our government officials and elected politicians behaved in this way, Israel would be in a much better overall state.

[kathy]

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/ne ... e-1.353913

"For nearly 11 years we have refrained from striking, and the treasury has taken advantage of our commitment in order to hang the health-care system out to dry," said Eidelman. "The health-care system is collapsing from day to day. We have submitted a rescue plan for the system that should bring good news to the residents of Israel, but the treasury is continuing to drag its feet. We cannot continue to lend a hand to the destruction of the public health-care system."

於我心有戚戚焉

[kathy]

http://www.israelsituation.com/2011/08/ ... rs-strike/

I feel that citizens of the State of Israel owe a deep debt of gratitude to our medical professionals. For many years, they have provided a high quality service in line with the most recent developments in technology and treatment, while being paid far less than their real value. When the moment came to bring this situation to a head, they did so in the most respectful way possible, while still insisting upon the maintenance of their own rights and dignity. If some of our government officials and elected politicians behaved in this way, Israel would be in a much better overall state

ps

作者不是醫師 是財金出身的

Anthony Reich – who has written 207 posts on The Israel Situation.

I am a finance professional originating from South Africa. I have lived in Israel for the past 13 years. Previous to that I lived in London for 8 years. I have strong opinions and like to write on topics relevant to Israel and Jews around the world. I am married with 2 sons.

[kathy]

我常搞不清楚

哪一個比較讓我厭惡

揹黑鍋

還是

被當成笨蛋

當然

被當成笨蛋又得幫政府揹黑鍋

絕對是最讓人無法忍受的

[kathy]

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/is ... d-1.380681

The agreement, a compromise between the demands of the doctors and the ministry, was signed after a breakthrough in recent days between the two sides. The breakthrough was due to the facilitation of Yitzhak Peterburg. The details of the draft agreement were published Wednesday, and the two sides deliberated intensively overnight to iron out the final details.

看起來 以色列的制度似乎比較接近公醫

因為罷工 抗爭的對象 和 協議的對象是政府

http://www.israelsituation.com/2011/08/ ... rs-strike/

The Israeli medical health system is one of the best that I have come across. One does not find the phenomenon here like in the USA and other countries around the world, that people who are at an economic disadvantage are unable to receive medical treatment. In Israel, all citizens have the right to have access to basic medical treatment which is of a high standard. One does also not experience the issue which the UK’s National Health System suffers from of lengthy waiting lists for treatments to be carried out. In Israel, even though it may require some patience, treatments are usually available within a reasonable period of time. Now that pay scales have been rectified, it will ensure that those delivering this service will be remunerated accordingly. It will also mean that high quality individuals will be attracted to the medical field, and will be incentivised to practice their art in Israel as opposed to seeking more lucrative opportunities abroad.

[kathy]

There are large gaps between the positions of the medical association and the treasury, which even disagree over the facts. The government says physicians currently earn an average of NIS 26,322 a month, but the doctors say the actual figure is NIS 24,000.

1 NIS = 0.271702 U.S. dollars ~ 8 NTD

所以 平均薪資應是 24000 ~ 26332 x 8 = 192,000 ~ 210,656

這是 加薪前

加薪49% 所以 加薪後 平均薪資應是 286,080 ~ 313,877

這個幅度還是最起碼的

人力特別短缺的科別 加薪程度更大 最高達70%

Differential increases will also be paid to physicians in specialties with doctor shortages, including general surgery, internal medicine, pathology, geriatrics, child psychology, hematology, emergency medicine, nuclear medicine and pediatric oncology.

An especially high increase - 70 percent - will be given to specialists in fields where the shortages are acute, including anesthesiology, intensive care, pediatrics and neonatology.

[kathy]

http://www.israelsituation.com/2011/08/ ... rs-strike/

台灣醫界如果要以罷工為手段

以色列人的做法值得參考

For me, the main lessons to be learned from the new deal are the ones arising from the process that it took until the time that it was agreed. One can learn many things from the behaviour of the doctors in this process, as well as the way in which government officials acted. One of the toughest lessons that new immigrants to Israel are forced to learn, frequently via the most difficult route, is that there is no such thing as automatic entitlement in this country. Even if you have a caste-iron agreement in place which says that you are entitled to a certain increase in salary or other entitlement, you will not receive this unless you are prepared to go in and demand what you are entitled to. Whereas in other countries, companies usually have a date upon which salaries are reviewed and pay increases are awarded (or not as the case may be), this type of behaviour is not typical for Israel. Companies will award pay increases to those who shout the loudest, and may completely overlook those who are not willing to make a big noise. The doctors’ strike was one of necessity. It should be clear that, without the industrial action and public relations exercise that went with it, the doctors would not have achieved a small fraction of what they deservedly achieved.

The way that the action was taken, is of equal importance. Emergency services were never interrupted. Instead, the doctors professionally separated the cases into those whose treatment was essential, and those whose treatment could be delayed. Any treatment that was essential went forward without consideration of the industrial action. Doctors administering chemotherapy and psychiatric treatment did not interrupt their regular work day in the interests of taking best care of their patients. The strike was immediately lifted ten days ago in the area of the terror attacks in the south until such time as all casualties from these attacks had been taken proper care of. Although there is now a substantial backlog of non-emergency treatments that have been delayed, the doctors have somehow managed their medical responsibilities under their Hippocratic Oath, while also succeeding in placing the required pressure on those who only understand the language of industrial action.

The behaviour of the government officials in this sorry story have less sympathy and respect from me. To begin with, the demands of the doctors were completely ignored. Even when the industrial action was initiated, the treasury refused to give sufficient consideration to the effects of below-market pay rates to the country’s medical professionals. It eventually took a hunger strike on the part of the chairman of the Israel Medical Association, and a complete walkout of all medical residents from their hospitals until the proper attention was given to this important issue. When the agreement was finally signed last week, the treasury officials did their best to keep the signing low-key and behind doors.

1.有吵才有糖吃
這點在台灣有過之而無不即

2.不能delay緊急醫療

3.醫界大老帶頭
( It eventually took a hunger strike on the part of the chairman of the Israel Medical Association...)讓人impressive

4.住院醫師也要參與

It eventually took a hunger strike on the part of the chairman of the Israel Medical Association, and a complete walkout of all medical residents from their hospitals until the proper attention was given to this important issue.

[DR.HSU]

這些人在台灣絕對被罵到臭頭.

會被調查.如果事涉聯合預謀.恐怕.....
在台灣只要祭出...吊!吊!吊!保證沒人敢搞怪! (挖鼻孔) (偽可愛)

[壞人卡]

看來以色列醫生也不是很團結
這三百多個
註定要當砲灰